[Onebrother] Halloween and David's new letter

Fri Oct 28 17:09:28 EDT 2011

My two cents is: I think it's great that we're having this conversation.
--Vi

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 10:08 AM, David Rapp
<david at redeemerprestemple.org>wrote:

> Inez, sorry if I confused things for you.
>
> I DO think you should engage with your friends and feel the freedom to
> participate in Halloween things.  Sometimes Christians are motivated by fear
> to withdraw, separate, and form little Christian ghettos and I think we need
> to resist that.
>
> My point was that this is a gospel-related issue, an important area in
> which to apply our understanding of the gospel and practice Christian
> discernment to think about how we should engage our world.  But it's not the
> main thing.  So we wouldn't say let's skip the Bible study, DVD, etc. and
> talk about Halloween.  Rather, let's do the study and then maybe as one area
> of application talk about Halloween.
>
> It's just an issue of priority and emphasis.
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Inez Cobb <icobb at swmail.sw.org> wrote:
>
>> Thanks David I am loving this and learning SO much. but I am a little
>> confused. I was so excited about learning the truth about what Halloween
>> really stands for and how I might use that to witness to my friends that I
>> was ready to go out there and take part in all the Halloween things, but now
>> you say that is not what we want to encourage. That is why I think that
>> discussing these things at small group would be helpful unless I am the
>> only one with a non presbyterian background who is finding this interesting
>> and helpful.
>>
>> >>> David Rapp <david at redeemerprestemple.org> 10/27/2011 5:19 PM >>>
>>
>> It's absolutely a friendly chat (maybe we should all write in purple
>> bubble letters to make that obvious :) and you are definitely not offending
>> me.
>>
>> Yes, you can disagree with your pastor (just another benefit of being in a
>> presbyterian church that doesn't believe anyone is infallible except God and
>> His Word :)
>>
>> I TOTALLY agree that the gospel HAS to have practical application. The
>> goal of preaching and teaching, of exegesis and study and mining the
>> Scriptures to reveal Jesus and the gospel is to apply that to our hearts and
>> lives.
>>
>> Is the gospel that hard to understand? No and yes. No in that it's simple
>> enough for a child to understand it. Yet it is deep and rich and
>> multifaceted enough that the most sanctified person will die not having come
>> close to plumbing its depths. Our aim is to be together plumbing the depths
>> of the gospel, mining it for all its riches, and applying it to the equally
>> complex realities of our sinful hearts.
>>
>> The whole aim of the current study is to apply the gospel to real life in
>> community (which is why we are using it). I think it will bear more and more
>> fruit as we continue to get beneath the surface with each other.
>>
>> Our approach to something like Halloween is certainly an application of
>> the gospel. Do we believe our victorious King was lying when He said He saw
>> Satan fall like lightning, when we are told that Satan in "bound", that
>> Jesus can keep us safe from our enemies, that He who began a good work in us
>> will bring it to completion, that He won't lose any sheep? Or do we believe
>> we have to hide in fear? Does the gospel propel us to fearless engagement
>> with culture or fearful retreat? Our understanding of the gospel will
>> determine how we respond.
>>
>> My only point was that our primary focus needs to be on applying the
>> gospel to our hearts and the underlying beliefs and motivations that cause
>> us to think and act in certain ways, rather than devoting our time to more
>> tangential issues like whether our kids should dress up as smurfs,
>> princesses, ghosts, goblins, etc. (which I don't think is what you were
>> suggesting at all). I hope that distinction makes sense. Application to real
>> life issues is of vital importance. The tendency we just want to avoid is
>> creating some extra biblical standard of morality which is the liability
>> when focusing on ethical issues like that.
>>
>> Love the chatter.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Inez Cobb <icobb at swmail.sw.org> wrote:
>>
>>> And guys this is just a friendly little chat. Hope I am not offending
>>> anyone.
>>>
>>>
>>> >>> David Rapp <david at redeemerprestemple.org> 10/27/2011 12:19 PM >>>
>>>  Good thoughts, both of you.
>>>
>>> Our goal is most definitely to bring the gospel to bear on the realities
>>> of day to day life, and to do that in community, the context God has given
>>> us in which our growth in sanctification is to take place. I'm very
>>> encouraged by things taking place in our group and by things I am hearing
>>> from others in different groups where people are growing in open
>>> relationships with one another (that whole "intentionally intrusive,
>>> grace-centered" kind of relationship). And I agree that we have lots of room
>>> to grow and am confident that as the gospel is continually applied to our
>>> hearts it will bear that kind of relational fruit.
>>>
>>> Our goal is not just to "get THROUGH the lesson", but it is to GET what's
>>> IN the lesson, namely the gospel, and THEN to apply that to practical life
>>> circumstances.
>>>
>>> For those who have gone through our Intro to Redeemer Class (membership
>>> class), you may remember the "Rocket diagram" which illustrates what our
>>> primary focus is to be. The "engine" and body of the rocket are Scripture
>>> and the gospel (things like justification, adoption, sanctification, etc.).
>>> This is what we need to be ABOUT. There are ethical and theological issues
>>> on the wings of the rocket (things like our approach to Halloween) which are
>>> important things for us to think about, but NOT what we want to be our
>>> primary focus or define us.
>>>
>>> The "tree illustration" also gives us helpful direction in this. The
>>> "soil" is the Word. The trunk of the tree is the gospel. These produce the
>>> various gospel fruits, one of which is cultivating a biblical world and life
>>> view.
>>>
>>> We WANT to develop a worldview that guides our thinking about things such
>>> as Halloween. But this falls into the realm of the APPLICATION of the gospel
>>> to our lives. We have to have a solid understanding of the gospel to be able
>>> to apply it to various issues.
>>>
>>> This is why we are using studies that focus on the gospel. So, there IS
>>> an agenda. We DO want to get through the content of the studies, not for the
>>> sake of checking off a box, but because it's what we want to build our lives
>>> on, be shaped by, and have shape our church culture.
>>>
>>> Then, I would suggest, we can take opportunities to apply the gospel
>>> together to issues of life - like work, fantasy football, Halloween. We
>>> usually share a meal together for an hour on Sundays and this would be a
>>> perfect context for these kinds of discussions in the worldview realm.
>>>
>>> One caveat/warning: As we seek to think biblically together about various
>>> aspects and issues of life, we MUST maintain our focus on the gospel. It is
>>> all too easy for groups and conversations to be "issue-driven" rather than
>>> "gospel-driven".
>>>
>>> When you invite your neighbor to visit our community group (or come to a
>>> church party), we don't want their greatest impression to be: "Wow, these
>>> people are really passionate about . . . Halloween (for or against), gun
>>> control (for or against), cloth diapers, etc." We want them to say: "Wow,
>>> this Jesus person really means everything to them and His teaching impacts
>>> all of their life."
>>>
>>> Call me Captain Wordy
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 10:45 AM, B. Heath Robinson <
>>> heath at midnighthour.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oops. I meant to reply to all.
>>>>
>>>>  On Oct 27, 2011, at 10:45 AM, B. Heath Robinson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  I absolutely agree. I am always interested in bringing the Gospel to
>>>> bear on whatever is going on in our lives. As far as the topics go, I see
>>>> them like recipes. Someone made the recipe up, so there is no reason why
>>>> someone else (us) can't change them as long is the goal is the same. I don't
>>>> want to become a fantasy football league or romance novel discussion group.
>>>>
>>>> It makes me think of Shayor's sermon. He said he want small groups
>>>> because he needed friends. In all likelihood, we all need more help applying
>>>> the things we know rather than help knowing more things. This is the area
>>>> where friends really help.
>>>>
>>>> That being said, we do have a lesson each week. The leader has usually
>>>> done some preparation. If no one derails him, he will probably go with the
>>>> plan or just whatever is interesting to him. Not everyone is wrestling with
>>>> the same things at the same times. For me, the hardest part of a group that
>>>> deals more with what is going on in our lives is that we actually have to
>>>> know and share what is going on in our lives. I'd say that takes time, but I
>>>> really don't believe that. It takes freedom. It can be the freedom that
>>>> comes from trusting another person or freedom that comes from trusting God.
>>>>
>>>> One analogy might be dealing with authority. Sometimes it is easy to
>>>> have peace when you are under authority. This is usually when the authority
>>>> is good and is not particularly holy. Sometimes it is hard to have peace.
>>>> This is when the authority is bad and is really the same as the first case.
>>>> True peace comes from putting our trust in God and not the current state of
>>>> the authority.
>>>>
>>>> I am praying that our group does grow in this direction. I would exhort
>>>> us all to be more willing to share and to ask questions. I'd say that our
>>>> group is a safe place, but in very real ways it is not. It is principally
>>>> not safe because God is there and he often has a radically different agenda
>>>> than we do.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, Inez. I really appreciate you.
>>>>
>>>>  On Oct 27, 2011, at 10:24 AM, Inez Cobb wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  I really enjoyed David's new letter received today and the other
>>>> comments. I wish that our small group would take these items as they come up
>>>> to discuss them, instead of rushing thought an assigned lesson. Who cares if
>>>> it takes us a little longer to complete the lessons. Small group should be a
>>>> place where we do not have to be so strict. If someone has a need or
>>>> question we should be able to slow down and care for that. Just my thoughts
>>>> wondering what everyone else thinks.
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rev. David Rapp
>>>
>>> Redeemer Presbyterian Church
>>> Temple, TX
>>>
>>> david at redeemerprestemple.org
>>> 254-760-4246
>>>
>>> www.redeemerprestemple.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rev. David Rapp
>>
>> Redeemer Presbyterian Church
>> Temple, TX
>>
>> david at redeemerprestemple.org
>> 254-760-4246
>>
>> www.redeemerprestemple.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Rev. David Rapp
>
> Redeemer Presbyterian Church
> Temple, TX
>
> david at redeemerprestemple.org
> 254-760-4246
>
> www.redeemerprestemple.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Onebrother mailing list
> Onebrother at midnighthour.org
> http://mail.midnighthour.org/mailman/listinfo/onebrother_midnighthour.org
>
>
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