[Onebrother] Halloween and David's new letter

Thu Oct 27 18:19:56 EDT 2011

It's absolutely a friendly chat (maybe we should all write in purple bubble
letters to make that obvious :) and you are definitely not offending me.

Yes, you can disagree with your pastor (just another benefit of being in a
presbyterian church that doesn't believe anyone is infallible except God and
His Word :)

I TOTALLY agree that the gospel HAS to have practical application.  The goal
of preaching and teaching, of exegesis and study and mining the Scriptures
to reveal Jesus and the gospel is to apply that to our hearts and lives.

Is the gospel that hard to understand?  No and yes.  No in that it's simple
enough for a child to understand it.  Yet it is deep and rich and
multifaceted enough that the most sanctified person will die not having come
close to plumbing its depths.  Our aim is to be together plumbing the depths
of the gospel, mining it for all its riches, and applying it to the equally
complex realities of our sinful hearts.

The whole aim of the current study is to apply the gospel to real life in
community (which is why we are using it).  I think it will bear more and
more fruit as we continue to get beneath the surface with each other.

Our approach to something like Halloween is certainly an application of the
gospel.  Do we believe our victorious King was lying when He said He saw
Satan fall like lightning, when we are told that Satan in "bound", that
Jesus can keep us safe from our enemies, that He who began a good work in us
will bring it to completion, that He won't lose any sheep?  Or do we believe
we have to hide in fear?  Does the gospel propel us to fearless engagement
with culture or fearful retreat?  Our understanding of the gospel will
determine how we respond.

My only point was that our primary focus needs to be on applying the gospel
to our hearts and the underlying beliefs and motivations that cause us to
think and act in certain ways, rather than devoting our time to more
tangential issues like whether our kids should dress up as smurfs,
princesses, ghosts, goblins, etc. (which I don't think is what you were
suggesting at all).  I hope that distinction makes sense.  Application to
real life issues is of vital importance.  The tendency we just want to avoid
is creating some extra biblical standard of morality which is the liability
when focusing on ethical issues like that.

Love the chatter.

David

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Inez Cobb <icobb at swmail.sw.org> wrote:

> And guys this is just a friendly little chat. Hope I am not offending
> anyone.
>
>
> >>> David Rapp <david at redeemerprestemple.org> 10/27/2011 12:19 PM >>>
> Good thoughts, both of you.
>
> Our goal is most definitely to bring the gospel to bear on the realities of
> day to day life, and to do that in community, the context God has given us
> in which our growth in sanctification is to take place. I'm very encouraged
> by things taking place in our group and by things I am hearing from others
> in different groups where people are growing in open relationships with one
> another (that whole "intentionally intrusive, grace-centered" kind of
> relationship). And I agree that we have lots of room to grow and am
> confident that as the gospel is continually applied to our hearts it will
> bear that kind of relational fruit.
>
> Our goal is not just to "get THROUGH the lesson", but it is to GET what's
> IN the lesson, namely the gospel, and THEN to apply that to practical life
> circumstances.
>
> For those who have gone through our Intro to Redeemer Class (membership
> class), you may remember the "Rocket diagram" which illustrates what our
> primary focus is to be. The "engine" and body of the rocket are Scripture
> and the gospel (things like justification, adoption, sanctification, etc.).
> This is what we need to be ABOUT. There are ethical and theological issues
> on the wings of the rocket (things like our approach to Halloween) which are
> important things for us to think about, but NOT what we want to be our
> primary focus or define us.
>
> The "tree illustration" also gives us helpful direction in this. The "soil"
> is the Word. The trunk of the tree is the gospel. These produce the various
> gospel fruits, one of which is cultivating a biblical world and life view.
>
> We WANT to develop a worldview that guides our thinking about things such
> as Halloween. But this falls into the realm of the APPLICATION of the gospel
> to our lives. We have to have a solid understanding of the gospel to be able
> to apply it to various issues.
>
> This is why we are using studies that focus on the gospel. So, there IS an
> agenda. We DO want to get through the content of the studies, not for the
> sake of checking off a box, but because it's what we want to build our lives
> on, be shaped by, and have shape our church culture.
>
> Then, I would suggest, we can take opportunities to apply the gospel
> together to issues of life - like work, fantasy football, Halloween. We
> usually share a meal together for an hour on Sundays and this would be a
> perfect context for these kinds of discussions in the worldview realm.
>
> One caveat/warning: As we seek to think biblically together about various
> aspects and issues of life, we MUST maintain our focus on the gospel. It is
> all too easy for groups and conversations to be "issue-driven" rather than
> "gospel-driven".
>
> When you invite your neighbor to visit our community group (or come to a
> church party), we don't want their greatest impression to be: "Wow, these
> people are really passionate about . . . Halloween (for or against), gun
> control (for or against), cloth diapers, etc." We want them to say: "Wow,
> this Jesus person really means everything to them and His teaching impacts
> all of their life."
>
> Call me Captain Wordy
>
> David
>
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 10:45 AM, B. Heath Robinson <
> heath at midnighthour.org> wrote:
>
>> Oops. I meant to reply to all.
>>
>>  On Oct 27, 2011, at 10:45 AM, B. Heath Robinson wrote:
>>
>>  I absolutely agree. I am always interested in bringing the Gospel to
>> bear on whatever is going on in our lives. As far as the topics go, I see
>> them like recipes. Someone made the recipe up, so there is no reason why
>> someone else (us) can't change them as long is the goal is the same. I don't
>> want to become a fantasy football league or romance novel discussion group.
>>
>> It makes me think of Shayor's sermon. He said he want small groups because
>> he needed friends. In all likelihood, we all need more help applying the
>> things we know rather than help knowing more things. This is the area where
>> friends really help.
>>
>> That being said, we do have a lesson each week. The leader has usually
>> done some preparation. If no one derails him, he will probably go with the
>> plan or just whatever is interesting to him. Not everyone is wrestling with
>> the same things at the same times. For me, the hardest part of a group that
>> deals more with what is going on in our lives is that we actually have to
>> know and share what is going on in our lives. I'd say that takes time, but I
>> really don't believe that. It takes freedom. It can be the freedom that
>> comes from trusting another person or freedom that comes from trusting God.
>>
>> One analogy might be dealing with authority. Sometimes it is easy to have
>> peace when you are under authority. This is usually when the authority is
>> good and is not particularly holy. Sometimes it is hard to have peace. This
>> is when the authority is bad and is really the same as the first case. True
>> peace comes from putting our trust in God and not the current state of the
>> authority.
>>
>> I am praying that our group does grow in this direction. I would exhort us
>> all to be more willing to share and to ask questions. I'd say that our group
>> is a safe place, but in very real ways it is not. It is principally not safe
>> because God is there and he often has a radically different agenda than we
>> do.
>>
>> Thanks, Inez. I really appreciate you.
>>
>>  On Oct 27, 2011, at 10:24 AM, Inez Cobb wrote:
>>
>>  I really enjoyed David's new letter received today and the other
>> comments. I wish that our small group would take these items as they come up
>> to discuss them, instead of rushing thought an assigned lesson. Who cares if
>> it takes us a little longer to complete the lessons. Small group should be a
>> place where we do not have to be so strict. If someone has a need or
>> question we should be able to slow down and care for that. Just my thoughts
>> wondering what everyone else thinks.
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>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Rev. David Rapp
>
> Redeemer Presbyterian Church
> Temple, TX
>
> david at redeemerprestemple.org
> 254-760-4246
>
> www.redeemerprestemple.org
>

-- 
Rev. David Rapp

Redeemer Presbyterian Church
Temple, TX

david at redeemerprestemple.org
254-760-4246

www.redeemerprestemple.org
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